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	<title>Comments on: “Stretch” Languages, or, 28 years of programming</title>
	<atom:link href="http://osteele.com/archives/2006/02/stretch-languages/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://osteele.com/archives/2006/02/stretch-languages</link>
	<description>Languages of the real and artificial.</description>
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		<title>By: arabic man in japan</title>
		<link>http://osteele.com/archives/2006/02/stretch-languages/comment-page-1#comment-210</link>
		<dc:creator>arabic man in japan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Jun 2008 21:14:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://osteele.com/2006/02/06/stretch-languages-or-28-years-of-programming#comment-210</guid>
		<description>wether you look right or left, java remains the best....still thanks for the neat post.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>wether you look right or left, java remains the best&#8230;.still thanks for the neat post.</p>
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		<title>By: jon</title>
		<link>http://osteele.com/archives/2006/02/stretch-languages/comment-page-1#comment-209</link>
		<dc:creator>jon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Jun 2008 07:15:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://osteele.com/2006/02/06/stretch-languages-or-28-years-of-programming#comment-209</guid>
		<description>wow! nice article. thank you for sharing</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>wow! nice article. thank you for sharing</p>
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		<title>By: Filip OÅ¡ÄÃ¡dal</title>
		<link>http://osteele.com/archives/2006/02/stretch-languages/comment-page-1#comment-208</link>
		<dc:creator>Filip OÅ¡ÄÃ¡dal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 07 Jan 2007 18:35:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://osteele.com/2006/02/06/stretch-languages-or-28-years-of-programming#comment-208</guid>
		<description>http://moderniweb.blogspot.com/2007/01/stretch-languages-or-28-years-of.html

We started with the same ones, I am just younger :D And moved for 10 years into sound and music editing. Now PHP, AJAX and who knows what comes next...

Thanx for the article.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://moderniweb.blogspot.com/2007/01/stretch-languages-or-28-years-of.html">http://moderniweb.blogspot.com/2007/01/stretch-languages-or-28-years-of.html</a></p>
<p>We started with the same ones, I am just younger <img src='http://osteele.com/wp/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif' alt=':D' class='wp-smiley' />  And moved for 10 years into sound and music editing. Now PHP, AJAX and who knows what comes next&#8230;</p>
<p>Thanx for the article.</p>
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		<title>By: Contra Ruby</title>
		<link>http://osteele.com/archives/2006/02/stretch-languages/comment-page-1#comment-207</link>
		<dc:creator>Contra Ruby</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Jul 2006 18:59:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://osteele.com/2006/02/06/stretch-languages-or-28-years-of-programming#comment-207</guid>
		<description>[...] Im Grunde fÃ¼hrt er viele Dinge auf, die jedem Ruby-Programmierung ohnehin schon bekannt sind. Zum einen die Performance, die fehlende IDE, fehlendes Refactoring und Rails-spezifische Probleme. Naja ich mÃ¶chte mal wissen, was so um 1995, 1997 die Leute Ã¼ber Java gesagt haben. Irgendwie klingen viele VorwÃ¼rfe Ã¤hnlich, was dem Erfolg der Sprache im Keinsten geschadet hat. Und damals gab es IDEs wie Visual Age. Meiner Meinung ergibt sich der Erfolg durch die Sprache selbst. Das erinnert mich an ein schÃ¶nes Zitat: &#8220;Writing Haskell is like writing poetryâ€¦as opposed to Python and Ruby, which are more prosaic, and Enterprise Java, which is more like a tax form.â€ Oliver Steele [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Im Grunde f&Atilde;&Acirc;&amp;frac14;hrt er viele Dinge auf, die jedem Ruby-Programmierung ohnehin schon bekannt sind. Zum einen die Performance, die fehlende IDE, fehlendes Refactoring und Rails-spezifische Probleme. Naja ich m&Atilde;&Acirc;&para;chte mal wissen, was so um 1995, 1997 die Leute &Atilde;&Acirc;&amp;frac14;ber Java gesagt haben. Irgendwie klingen viele Vorw&Atilde;&Acirc;&amp;frac14;rfe &Atilde;&Acirc;&curren;hnlich, was dem Erfolg der Sprache im Keinsten geschadet hat. Und damals gab es IDEs wie Visual Age. Meiner Meinung ergibt sich der Erfolg durch die Sprache selbst. Das erinnert mich an ein sch&Atilde;&Acirc;&para;nes Zitat: &#8220;Writing Haskell is like writing poetry&Atilde;&cent;&acirc;&not;&Acirc;&brvbar;as opposed to Python and Ruby, which are more prosaic, and Enterprise Java, which is more like a tax form.&Atilde;&cent;&acirc;&not;&Acirc; Oliver Steele [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Sam Spade</title>
		<link>http://osteele.com/archives/2006/02/stretch-languages/comment-page-1#comment-206</link>
		<dc:creator>Sam Spade</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Jul 2006 00:48:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://osteele.com/2006/02/06/stretch-languages-or-28-years-of-programming#comment-206</guid>
		<description>&quot;Enterprise Java, which is more like a tax form&quot;

Not bad.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Enterprise Java, which is more like a tax form&#8221;</p>
<p>Not bad.</p>
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		<title>By: The Ocean</title>
		<link>http://osteele.com/archives/2006/02/stretch-languages/comment-page-1#comment-205</link>
		<dc:creator>The Ocean</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 May 2006 17:55:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://osteele.com/2006/02/06/stretch-languages-or-28-years-of-programming#comment-205</guid>
		<description>Hi Oliver - thanks for the charts.  I got to your site via Textpattern &gt; Textdrive Blog &gt; Projectionist Blog &gt; Oliver Steele Blog.

Could I recommend adding lines so that the bar can be better corresponded with the language in the charts?

Thanks to your blog of Haskell I have a new language to try out &amp; learn.  Take care!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Oliver &#8211; thanks for the charts.  I got to your site via Textpattern &gt; Textdrive Blog &gt; Projectionist Blog &gt; Oliver Steele Blog.</p>
<p>Could I recommend adding lines so that the bar can be better corresponded with the language in the charts?</p>
<p>Thanks to your blog of Haskell I have a new language to try out &amp; learn.  Take care!</p>
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		<title>By: Rune er snuskete » Blog Archive » Massasjeorientert programm</title>
		<link>http://osteele.com/archives/2006/02/stretch-languages/comment-page-1#comment-204</link>
		<dc:creator>Rune er snuskete » Blog Archive » Massasjeorientert programm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 May 2006 11:37:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://osteele.com/2006/02/06/stretch-languages-or-28-years-of-programming#comment-204</guid>
		<description>[...] I min sÃ¸ken etter tiltakslyst snublet jeg over diverse nettsider (OK, dette er generelt ikke en god mÃ¥te Ã¥ finne lyst til Ã¥ begynne pÃ¥ ting man skal gjÃ¸re, men heller en velkjent mÃ¥te Ã¥ prokrastinere pÃ¥). Etter Ã¥ ha snublet gjennom et sitat pÃ¥ Projectionist, ramlet jeg videre inn pÃ¥ artikkelen som ble referert til (en ganske OK artikkel forresten). Etter Ã¥ ha lest den var jeg litt usikker pÃ¥ hva han mente med CLOS MOP og hvordan det hang sammen med Ruby. Litt kjapp googling gav meg sÃ¥ klart svaret, og en enda mer interessant artikkel: MOP&#8217;ing up with herbal cialis. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] I min s&Atilde;&Acirc;&cedil;ken etter tiltakslyst snublet jeg over diverse nettsider (OK, dette er generelt ikke en god m&Atilde;&Acirc;&yen;te &Atilde;&Acirc;&yen; finne lyst til &Atilde;&Acirc;&yen; begynne p&Atilde;&Acirc;&yen; ting man skal gj&Atilde;&Acirc;&cedil;re, men heller en velkjent m&Atilde;&Acirc;&yen;te &Atilde;&Acirc;&yen; prokrastinere p&Atilde;&Acirc;&yen;). Etter &Atilde;&Acirc;&yen; ha snublet gjennom et sitat p&Atilde;&Acirc;&yen; Projectionist, ramlet jeg videre inn p&Atilde;&Acirc;&yen; artikkelen som ble referert til (en ganske OK artikkel forresten). Etter &Atilde;&Acirc;&yen; ha lest den var jeg litt usikker p&Atilde;&Acirc;&yen; hva han mente med CLOS MOP og hvordan det hang sammen med Ruby. Litt kjapp googling gav meg s&Atilde;&Acirc;&yen; klart svaret, og en enda mer interessant artikkel: MOP&#8217;ing up with herbal cialis. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Andrea Campi</title>
		<link>http://osteele.com/archives/2006/02/stretch-languages/comment-page-1#comment-203</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrea Campi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 May 2006 08:57:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://osteele.com/2006/02/06/stretch-languages-or-28-years-of-programming#comment-203</guid>
		<description>Nice meme you have here ;-)
I guess your graphs were made with OmniGraffle? Could you make a template available (or send it to me)?

That said, the trend towards scripting languages is significant, and it&#039;s really telling, expecially for someone who (as you admit) likes them and to learn them. It&#039;s pretty clear that people have just more fun using scripting languages, and that allows us to be more productive when doing paid work.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nice meme you have here <img src='http://osteele.com/wp/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /><br />
I guess your graphs were made with OmniGraffle? Could you make a template available (or send it to me)?</p>
<p>That said, the trend towards scripting languages is significant, and it&#8217;s really telling, expecially for someone who (as you admit) likes them and to learn them. It&#8217;s pretty clear that people have just more fun using scripting languages, and that allows us to be more productive when doing paid work.</p>
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		<title>By: Peter</title>
		<link>http://osteele.com/archives/2006/02/stretch-languages/comment-page-1#comment-202</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 May 2006 09:17:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://osteele.com/2006/02/06/stretch-languages-or-28-years-of-programming#comment-202</guid>
		<description>It is interesting to see what languages do *not* appear on your list.
I remember BASIC as pretty much the only game in town for the TRS-80
(unless you wanted to spend 30 minutes loading ED/ASM from a cassette
tape), so you kinda *had* to learn BASIC.

But in the mid 90&#039;s the overwhelmingly popular choice for writing
CGI scripts was Perl, and I *know* you must have at least had to read
some Perl during your career - yet it doesn&#039;t appear in your chart.
Randal Schwartz wrote a nice essay about the things that Eric Raymond
thinks that &quot;Perl got right&quot; (ttp://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/LinuxMag/col44.html).
And when I joined a PHP project a couple of years ago I was quite
flabbergasted to learn that PHP 4 had nothing like &quot;taint mode&quot;,
even though lots of folks were using PHP to write exactly the same
bugs that had been written almost decade earlier in Perl, before
script programmers learned how to safely &quot;untaint&quot; their input.

I loved your essay about language mavens vs. IDE mavens, and now
you&#039;ve got me thinking about the &quot;cultural&quot; speciation (languages,
tools, patterns, and idioms) which tends to develop around different
problem domains, and whether or not this is a good thing for the
general practice of software development.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is interesting to see what languages do <strong>not</strong> appear on your list.<br />
I remember BASIC as pretty much the only game in town for the TRS-80<br />
(unless you wanted to spend 30 minutes loading ED/ASM from a cassette<br />
tape), so you kinda <strong>had</strong> to learn BASIC.</p>
<p>But in the mid 90&#8242;s the overwhelmingly popular choice for writing<br />
CGI scripts was Perl, and I <strong>know</strong> you must have at least had to read<br />
some Perl during your career &#8211; yet it doesn&#8217;t appear in your chart.<br />
Randal Schwartz wrote a nice essay about the things that Eric Raymond<br />
thinks that &#8220;Perl got right&#8221; (ttp://www.stonehenge.com/merlyn/LinuxMag/col44.html).<br />
And when I joined a PHP project a couple of years ago I was quite<br />
flabbergasted to learn that PHP 4 had nothing like &#8220;taint mode&#8221;,<br />
even though lots of folks were using PHP to write exactly the same<br />
bugs that had been written almost decade earlier in Perl, before<br />
script programmers learned how to safely &#8220;untaint&#8221; their input.</p>
<p>I loved your essay about language mavens vs. IDE mavens, and now<br />
you&#8217;ve got me thinking about the &#8220;cultural&#8221; speciation (languages,<br />
tools, patterns, and idioms) which tends to develop around different<br />
problem domains, and whether or not this is a good thing for the<br />
general practice of software development.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Subject Code » links for 2006-04-09</title>
		<link>http://osteele.com/archives/2006/02/stretch-languages/comment-page-1#comment-201</link>
		<dc:creator>Subject Code » links for 2006-04-09</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 May 2006 07:55:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://osteele.com/2006/02/06/stretch-languages-or-28-years-of-programming#comment-201</guid>
		<description>[...] Oliver Steele Â» Blog Archive Â» â€œStretchâ€ Languages, or, 28 years of programming (tags: programming language articles) [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Oliver Steele &Atilde;&Acirc;&raquo; Blog Archive &Atilde;&Acirc;&raquo; &Atilde;&cent;&acirc;&not;&Aring;Stretch&Atilde;&cent;&acirc;&not;&Acirc; Languages, or, 28 years of programming (tags: programming language articles) [...]</p>
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